you know how we keep talking about forced upgrades in M$ world and laugh.
well stop laughing cause mozilla now is using the same tactics
now I don't upgrade anything on my own, thats what I use a distro for, when Mandrake decides to release a firefox upgrade I'll install it, until then I'm happy with what I got and it is nobody's freaking business.
so I navigate a bit until I find tha mozilla firefox extensions link, no luck redirect again, search the mozilla.org website, find link redirect again, use tools-> extensions->get more extensions, nope sorry redirect again.
THANK YOU MOZILLA FOR PROVING TIME AND AGAIN THAT FOSS CAN SUCK AS MUCH AS PROPRIETARY GIVEN THE RIGHT MINDSET
IMO projects like mozilla and openoffice that are being promoted as the proof GNU/Linux is good and FOSS is good are a major disaster, they're bloated, underfeatured, they crash and hang all the time, they're very badly designed, their internationalization sucks, and they insist on ignoring all the progress done by the desktop projects like KDE and Gnome
- why won't the supposedly GTK mozilla and OO.o use the freaking GTK theme
- and use Pango to render text correctly
- why can't they get Bidi right when gnome and KDE already did it?
- why can't they get tashkil right?
- why is their code base sooo bloated, their bug tracking soo complex, their communities soo hostile that one never manages to make a decent bug report
oh and dont' get me started on firefox's extensions, you complain ff is underfeatured they tell you its because you should install extensions, you complain it is unstable they tell you its because you installed many extensions, not to mention THE FREAKING PROFILE THING WHICH IS TOTALLY USELESS I HAPPEN TO BE USING A MULTIUSER OPERATING SYSTEM YOU KNOW
and watch me explain to people how easy GNU/Linux desktop is, you just have to remember to delete the lock symlink in .mozilla/firefox/someweirdshit/ everytime electricity or mozilla dies.
I'm still waiting for the day someone writes a mozilla and oo.o killer, kazehakaze and konquerer are almost there.
Comments
ff is devil
I hate firefox and oo they suck all time ,crashes,unstable,badly desiened and above all this mozilla enforces you to update firefox ,whay ? I don't know
Face it , Firefox was never made for linux.
I think Firefox and the mozilla project in general was more focused on Windows than linux. Firefox was propably the biggest hit to IE just because it was alot lighter and had much better pop-up blocking techniques. It also was safer to use. Many of the reasons why the windows mainstream shifted to firefox didn't exist for the linux user in the first place i suppose.
just move to opera :P
so call me a newb
who is linuxizing for the first time soon -- what browsers should I try?
there are many fine browsers
there are many fine browsers out there, but for most part, only three browsers are widely used nowadays and hence closest to completion, namely mozilla firefox, opera and konqueror. so... on to the recommendations.
1- is being free and open source a requirement in the browser you chose?
if no jump to 2
if yes jump to 4
2- will you be using kde?
if yes jump to 3
if no use opera
3- try both opera and konqueror, it's really hard to pick one without trying them both for a while (i settled on konq in the end)
4- will you be using kde?
if yes use konqueror
if no use firefox
--just my opinion
jah
Aside from the useless XUL me
Aside from the useless XUL mess, there is the horrible status of the libraries. The ones I know about are : xpcom nss nspr necko etc..
What's wrong? Some programs use them so you have to install them system wide. Yet mozilla and firefox can't use these system wide installations. Here's a scenario:
Gaim is built with system wide nss and nspr... evolution is built with gtkmozembed provided by a normal mozilla install. Then you install firefox in a non-system wide place to use it ( because it's cool for the users ). End result : three separate installations of the same code. Whatever happened to good old modularity and disk space / memory conserving? Also there is the issue of memory and resource usage. At the same time the gecko engine does not pass the acid2 test..
The fixes in safari have been ported to KHTML in cvs and if gecko doesn't move soon it will be a very big incentive to use konqueror.
Just my provisional diagnosis.
what I want to see
is a light weight modular interface built on GTK+ like kazehakase with the core of the khtml engine (ya3ni like safari did), would be better kaman if it relies on pango for text rendering so we can have proper internationalization without much hassle (I know KDE are doing very good work on that front bas pango seems better from a user point of you and they seem to respond to bugs faster).
Alaa
"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"
standalone FF is perfectly fine
I think standalone FF is perfectly fine. maybe a little underfeatured
but I don't need 9/10 of the stuff IE has when I'm browsing the web on the server which makes a stock FF install perfectly fine and on the issue of FF instability when installing extensions
two thoughts;
I only have instability when I view horribly coded pages, or those specifically designed for use with IE (read, horribly coded pages) being those that utilize MS specific code
if you are experiencing instability after installling extensions, the first thing that comes to mind is compatability with hundreds of people writing extensions as seperate projects there's bound to be conflicting code
-I used to be indecisive .. but now I'm not so sure
nope thats called bad design
a program should not become unstable on or crash or leak memory on any given input, even if the input is not valid.
I would not complain if FF failed to render badly formed HTML in a way that resembles IE, I would not complain if FF fails to run some javascript or something else that is specific to IE, but nothing excuses instability.
same goes for extensions, one should not be able to b0rk FF with extensions (but I'll admit this is very difficult to do), incompatibility between extensions is no excuse, extensions should be left for rarely needed features, we have extensions that allow us to access funtionality that is already within FF but doesn't have an interface this doesn't seem right to me at all.
the extensions I use and find should really be part of the browser are * an extension to turn the browser into a real tabbed browser (ie to never open a new window)
these are IMO important features IMO, I don't mind FF going the modular way and having them as seperate packages but its a beast and resource hog already (being better than IE is meaningless anything is better than M$ when it comes to bloat) can't see the harm in including those.
Alaa
"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"
What's that extension that op
What's that extension that opens a new tab instead of a new window?
What's that extension that opens a new tab besides the parent tab?
I've found such extension months ago but it was several extensions grouped together and they were unstable. Can't remember it's name besides several ones claim to do the same thing.
I use
too lazy to find links, I think I might have mentioned them with links before in the wiki, too lazy to search.
Alaa
"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"
extensions you mentioned
-I used to be indecisive .. but now I'm not so sure
WTH
IE is lighter than FF.
Quote "yes she took her cake to become small so we can fit into the rabbit hole .. i`m already small aho even u can`t c me :P"
Hahaha
Never!
Sometimes, IE loads quicker (when extensions are installed), but that's because IE is already mostly loaded (explorer.exe is freaking windows AND ie)
I can say that IE + win98 on
I can say that IE + win98 on a 92 MB RAM loads faster than Firefox + GNU/Linux + 256 MB RAM. And Usually it was more responsive.
Maybe I forgot, Maybe.
Quote "yes she took her cake to become small so we can fit into the rabbit hole .. i`m already small aho even u can`t c me :P"
a program should not become u
programs will leak memory on rare occasions, period, sometimes it's avoidable, sometime's it isn't.
but trying to relieve the world's programs of memory leakage entirely is impossible.
you just deal with it and hope the end user doesn't notice too much.
heh, and IE is stable?
I guess we're probably insinuating program stability instead of entire system stability, but hell
if your web browser infests your entire computer with ad/mal/spyware thus causing you to run 3-5 extra programs on top of your normal ones just to maintain control of your own system, and unintentionally creating an unstable system, I would choose program instability over complete system instability.
what's this about JS being specific to IE?
javascript isn't specific to IE, activeX is, and for whatever purpose, some idiot has already created a FF plugin to allow for the use of activeX (shudders)
extensions should be left for rarely needed features. I can and will put whatever the fuck I feel like on my box and if it crashes, it's my own damn fault.
considering that FF is a community supported project, and the vast majority of extensions are created by the community, extensions incompatability always will be an issue, albeit a minor one.
the developers of extensions have disclaimers on their homepages (well, some developers) about incompatabilties with other extensions.
this is all about preferences, whoever wrote this is an idiot.
he tries to tell me how I should and shouldn't be able to use my browser, what extensions I should and shouldn't be able to install, and how I should set my preferences
deal with it, or go back to IE. **** fascist
there are numerous extensions for these exact purposes
duh, it's around. but not everyone would even use it, or take the time to figure out how it works, so why include it if only 30% of the people are going to use it and the 99% of that 30% knows where to get it and how to configure it
so far, it's not been a resource hog to my system. but I run linux. windows explorer is a resource hog.
why include them, increasing both your bandwidth consumption, and the downloaders, if these features aren't going to be utilized, it's moronic to put it lightly, and is just one asshole's opinion
personally, I love the way that I have my firefox setup. I wouldn't change anything except! having to update every few weeks part.
there's always some new extension update or a FF security update, or some shit
-I used to be indecisive .. but now I'm not so sure
you don't get it
resource leak will happen is IMO a very poor argument, most well written software does not leak resources, or never does it in an alarming way, FF is not among them, if I have a long running firefox session on my laptop I fail to software suspend it because it used up so much ram and swap there is no place to dump the memory image.
I said it before comparing to IE doesn't make any sense IMO, anything is better than M$ when it comes to stability, security, and even sometimes ease of use and feature richness, M$ is the worst standard ever, if firefox's goal is to be better than IE then fine it did achieve it, but thats not good enough for me, I hope to see FF as good as the other FOSS software I use.
and you did not get the point of listing these extensions, I said I maintain a very minimal set of extensions that to me implement what I consider core features (you will find all of them have to do with making FF a tabbed browser with features that have been around in opera and galeon for years now).
now emacs makes no sense without scripts, but you never hear someone in the emacs community telling you it is your fault if emacs is unstable because you installed many scripts, you are supposed to install many scripts and the developers are supposed to make it very difficult for scripts to break things, and the community on the whole is interested in the stability of the thing so scripts that get widespread usage become core emacs scripts and get tested and debugged as part of emacs.
now FF (which is already too big without any extensions anyway) cannot be used without extensions yet when you install a bunch and report instability you get screamed at because its your fault (and of course if you complain about lack of features you are told to go install an extension).
now this is typical denial, I'm a FOSS advocate, I'm a freaking GNU/Linux fundementalist but I admit firefox and open office suck, they are bad software and we should be ashamed of them not generating hype around them.
what is even worse is it seems to be difficult to help make them better, their developer community is hostile, their bug tracking is complicated, their code base is too scary to say the least.
Alaa
"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"
recode other people's extension
I don't see anyone jumping up trying to recode other people's extension to reduce incompatability problems, but I see lots of people bitching about them
It's effing OS, either fix it, or move on
It all boils down to this " if you don't like it; don't bitch about it, just don't use it "
-I used to be indecisive .. but now I'm not so sure
nope
the problem is not in the extensions the problem is in FF and as I said it is not designed to allow casual contributors so you can't say don't bitch about it, since I don't have another option.
Alaa
"i`m feeling for the 2nd time like alice in wonderland reading el wafd"
Oh please... The problem is w
In the end, don't complain. Do something about it. Go help Kword improve their .doc support. Write your own browser. Support FOSS developers emails thanking them for their contributions. Do anything. But don't "bitch about it".
openoffice is a mess
but I agree, openoffice is a mess, try compiling it!
-I used to be indecisive .. but now I'm not so sure
:(
i'm sorry to say that my FireFox-on-Windows experience is much MUCH better than my FireFox-On-Linux expeience :(
that's natural, just like tha
that's natural, just like that the experience of eating kofta faragello when you're home alone with noone to cook you something real is much better than eating the same thing in ma7al kabab. under windows firefox stands out as the featurefull, customizable and secure browser, and no body cares about the bloat, for generally you're not expected to run more than 2 programs at the same time unless you have the horsepower, but under linux firefox stands out as the bloated browser surrounded by dozens of half assedly done extentions .
that said, in my experience firefox by no means performs better under windows than it does under linux, and many people are satesfied with it as it is under linux.
jah
yeah you are right
im just looking at your page with firefox on linux
The title is "Add... \x{0646}\x{648}" ... The part where you say "and use Pango" is totally distorted, I can hardly even read the bottom line.
i share your pain...
it does my head in too...
however you can type 'about:config' in the address bar, search for version number string and change it manually to the latest. It fools the extensions site, but doesn't mess with your apt/rpm/whatever you're using when upgrading.
If you use debian or red hat (or related) there are pango'd builds available. Alas I use Suse so I am unable to read any sites that contain diacritics...
Yes
FireFox, Konqueror, epiphani, opera (not FOSS) and more!